Hospice provides literature for the families of new patients. Part of it decsribes how the brain dies.

(Nonno was 90w/ miners black lung) I watched Nonno reaching with the hands and listened to the verbal mumbles as he (my grandfather) died. I heard the word “peach”, then climbed onto the bed with Nonno and asked him if it was a good peach. He said “yes”. I asked him if I could have a piece, and he said (in a tone of ultimate kindness), “Sure” (complete with voice inflections) and reached to me with his fingertips together and knew where to place the piece of peach in my outstreched hand. Obviously, his eyes were closed. I couldnt believe it, so I asked him if I could have another piece, and again he said “sure” and again put a piece of his peach into my hand. Nonno was not aware of our discussions, and would only awaken when I kissed his face (not when anyone else did or said anything else). After awakening he knew nothing of what our family was standing around watching.

THERE IS a level within dying that can be communicated with unknown to the dyings’ normal state of consciousness. Someone reaching with their hands is common as they die and the brain dies. Trust to communicate during this state and you may enjoy a lifetime of reward.

Terri’s subconscious may have been very aware like Nonno’s was.

There’s always room for more understanding and Ms. Shiavo had strength somewhere despite her flat EEG.

Hope I did OK.
Warmest Wishes, Mark

I meant that religious leaders ought to be the ones to argue with themselves over the morality of homosexuality and gay marriage, instead of senators and presidents.

Likewise, religious leaders ought not to concern themselves with tax policy and other non-moral political issues. Even if the words “separation of church and state” aren’t in the Constitution, they’re still a good idea.

And, frankly, giving her a lethal injection would have been better than what we’re currently doing. Same result, without torturing the parents (and the rest of the country) for as long.

Re: The disabled lady: She’ll have to make arrangements for someone to take care of her. The difference between Schiavo and her is that Schiavo’s brain is gone, and the disabled lady’s brain is not. Let’s be clear, Schiavo isn’t being disposed of because her husband doesn’t want to take care of her any more. If that was all there was to it, then he’d turn her over to the parents and go away without all the negative publicity to his name. He’s fought to carry out his wife’s wishes; if the disabled lady you’re referring to doesn’t want to die, then she won’t.

The fact that’s this case frightens her is a result of hysterical media coverage and spin; she has a misconception of the facts.

Re: Morphine: Maybe. Or maybe they’re trying to pacify people who call this “torture.”

Re: The video: Yes. That’s right. It doesn’t matter that she looks like she’s responding to a voice; she isn’t. They shot something like six hours of video that day, IIRC. I’d be stunned if they couldn’t find a ten second video clip to give to the media to play over and over and over. Which they did.

Re: Doctor’s quotes: Yeah, probably. There’s no shortage of emotionally involved doctors on both sides. In any case, we can debate this back and forth forever; unless there’s any more comments, I’m planning on moving on now.

I still disagree that feeding a person who cannot feed themselves is artificial life support.

Me, too, momtoast. This is a different thing from a “Do not resusitate” (sp?)order. That is why I believe it is actively killing a person vs. not reviving them — if you remove anyone’s food and water, they will not survive. Think of the uproar in this country if that had happened to an Iraqi prisoner, or even a dog. That is not letting nature take its course. That is actively helping nature along. It is the difference between, say, a cancer patient deciding not to have chemo vs. giving that same patient a lethal injection. If this is life support, every nursing home patient or quadripelgic who can’t lift a spoon is in trouble.

There is a severely disabled lady in our church who cannot care for herself, and this case scares her to death. She doesn’t believe her parents would do this to her, but she will likely outlive them, and who know what will happen to her in the long run if this kind of thing becomes precedent. That is what makes this the business of people besides Schiavo’s family: what happens here will affect other cases down the road.

The link to the bounty story didn’t work — it just got me to a page to register for the paper. But, no, that’s not the answer either. And I don’t know if he claims to be a Christian at all.

Instead of feeling pain, the patient experienced the sense of euphoria that accompanies a complete lack of food and water.

Who’s to say whether that happens to everyone. If Terri was not in pain they wouldn’t be having to increase her morphine.

While the family video repeatedly shown on television suggests otherwise, her non-functioning cortex precludes cognition, including any ability to interact or communicate with people or show any signs of awareness.

This is saying, it doesn’t matter what it looks like, it doesn’t matter what you see her doing, you’re wrong.

I’m sure you could find doctor’s quotes on both sides of the issue.

There’s a number of cases where I differ with the official position of BJU. Another example is gay marriage; Dr. Bob seems convinced that America will fall apart if the government recognizes gay marriages. Personally, I think that the government ought not be in the business of marriage; why should they care about my marital status? Let marriage be a religious issue, not a government issue.

But that’s off the topic.

What I think is terrible is that some moron
has been arrested for offering a $250K bounty on the life of Michael Schiavo. The epitome of Christian love and pro-life there.

BTW, Are you sure you are in BJU? I thought that Bob Jones is pro-life no matter what.

I still disagree that feeding a person who cannot feed themselves is artificial life support.

And I still think both sides made mistakes in handling things. It shouldn’t have been carried to a federal level, the judges should have listened to the state ligislatures actions that were properly legal, Michael Shiavo probably should have just divorced her and moved on with his life leaving her in her family’s care . . . It’s just a mess now.