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Comments on: Children’s Fiction Promotes Gullability http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/ I'm not crazy! I'm going sane in a crazy world! Wed, 08 Feb 2012 20:25:13 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.2 By: Barbara H. http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4665 Barbara H. Thu, 19 Jan 2006 13:36:06 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4665 David wasn't defiant. He was obedient and full of faith and willing to do something where the adults were not, and God used him. Sure, that can happen -- a child of faith can put adults to shame. Samuel never defied authorities either -- his parents or Eli. Jesus wasn't defiant -- he was going about His Father's business. After the incident at the temple, the Bible says he went with Mary and Joseph and was subject to them. That was a verse that had a major impact on me as a teen-ager -- the fact that the perfect sinless Son of God was subject to and obedient to human, fallible parents who didn't always understand Him, and if He did that in obedience to His heavenly Father, then I should and could as well. So, no, I'm not saying God can never use children or that children's faith and obedience aren't sometimes an example and a rebuke to adults. There are even ways Jesus said we are to be like children. But that's not the spirit in some of the books I was talking about. You see a lot of it in made-for-TV films. One children's book we checked out in Greenville without really examing it first turned out to be a new age book for kids (complete with an afterword by a spirit guide -- it was scary, actually). But even before getting to that part, there were red flags -- portraying it as ok for the child to throw a book at his teacher, someone telling the kids to drop everything they had ever believed before. In a lot of kid's books it isn't that blatant and obvious, but that kind of underlying spirit is there. OTOH, one of my all-time favorite children's books is <i>Keep the Lights Burning, Abby,</i> in which a girl has to do something she doesn't think she can do, yet takes the responsibility and finds the strength to do it. She "saves the day" but in submission to authority, not in defiance, and matures ands grows in the process. David wasn’t defiant. He was obedient and full of faith and willing to do something where the adults were not, and God used him. Sure, that can happen — a child of faith can put adults to shame. Samuel never defied authorities either — his parents or Eli. Jesus wasn’t defiant — he was going about His Father’s business. After the incident at the temple, the Bible says he went with Mary and Joseph and was subject to them. That was a verse that had a major impact on me as a teen-ager — the fact that the perfect sinless Son of God was subject to and obedient to human, fallible parents who didn’t always understand Him, and if He did that in obedience to His heavenly Father, then I should and could as well.

So, no, I’m not saying God can never use children or that children’s faith and obedience aren’t sometimes an example and a rebuke to adults. There are even ways Jesus said we are to be like children.

But that’s not the spirit in some of the books I was talking about. You see a lot of it in made-for-TV films. One children’s book we checked out in Greenville without really examing it first turned out to be a new age book for kids (complete with an afterword by a spirit guide — it was scary, actually). But even before getting to that part, there were red flags — portraying it as ok for the child to throw a book at his teacher, someone telling the kids to drop everything they had ever believed before. In a lot of kid’s books it isn’t that blatant and obvious, but that kind of underlying spirit is there.

OTOH, one of my all-time favorite children’s books is Keep the Lights Burning, Abby, in which a girl has to do something she doesn’t think she can do, yet takes the responsibility and finds the strength to do it. She “saves the day” but in submission to authority, not in defiance, and matures ands grows in the process.

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By: Blog Jones http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4615 Blog Jones Wed, 18 Jan 2006 04:47:48 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4615 <blockquote>Yet the Bible is full of just these stories - off hand I can think of Jesus at 14 teaching in the Temple and worrying is parents, Samuel, David and Goliath.</blockquote> Jesus is pretty obviously a special case. And exactly when did Samuel and David, as children, defy their authorities?

Yet the Bible is full of just these stories - off hand I can think of Jesus at 14 teaching in the Temple and worrying is parents, Samuel, David and Goliath.

Jesus is pretty obviously a special case.

And exactly when did Samuel and David, as children, defy their authorities?

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By: gordo http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4614 gordo Wed, 18 Jan 2006 01:14:03 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4614 <blockquote>I don’t like modern tales for kids that seem to urge them to defy authority (because the child knows the right thing to do and needs to save the day.) I think, even without a Biblical background, why would people want to urge children to be disobedient?? </blockquote> Yet the Bible is full of just these stories - off hand I can think of Jesus at 14 teaching in the Temple and worrying is parents, Samuel, David and Goliath.

I don’t like modern tales for kids that seem to urge them to defy authority (because the child knows the right thing to do and needs to save the day.) I think, even without a Biblical background, why would people want to urge children to be disobedient??

Yet the Bible is full of just these stories - off hand I can think of Jesus at 14 teaching in the Temple and worrying is parents, Samuel, David and Goliath.

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By: Barbara H. http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4613 Barbara H. Wed, 18 Jan 2006 00:40:01 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4613 I don't like the ones where the child is the only one who knows the right thing to do and saves the day. I don't like modern tales for kids that seem to urge them to defy authority (because the child knows the right thing to do and needs to save the day.) I think, even without a Biblical background, why would people want to urge children to be disobedient?? I don’t like the ones where the child is the only one who knows the right thing to do and saves the day.

I don’t like modern tales for kids that seem to urge them to defy authority (because the child knows the right thing to do and needs to save the day.) I think, even without a Biblical background, why would people want to urge children to be disobedient??

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By: Faustus http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4586 Faustus Tue, 17 Jan 2006 06:33:16 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4586 I have to say that growing up, my elementary school years were mostly bully-free (aside from a year living in England, where both my brother and I were physically attacked at one time or another). Middle school, in my experience, was where people got really nasty and cutthroat. High school was crummy, but by then most people have found some kind of a peer group and are focused on college and stuff- I just remember middle school as being this horrible, zit- and hormone-infested purgatory. Ugh. And now I work at one. Somewhere, someone is laughing very, very hard at me. I don't put up with any bullying in my classes or when I'm around (which is more than can be said for a lot of teachers/schools here in Japan, which turn a very blind eye to that stuff), but I'm not with the kids twenty-four hours a day, and I shudder to think of what goes on behind closed doors. You're right that kids can be very cruel to one another- they seem very adept at finding just the right (wrong) way to twist the knife sometimes. On the other hand, I know some really good, hard-working, sweet-tempered kids, too. You get all kinds. I have to say that growing up, my elementary school years were mostly bully-free (aside from a year living in England, where both my brother and I were physically attacked at one time or another). Middle school, in my experience, was where people got really nasty and cutthroat. High school was crummy, but by then most people have found some kind of a peer group and are focused on college and stuff- I just remember middle school as being this horrible, zit- and hormone-infested purgatory. Ugh. And now I work at one. Somewhere, someone is laughing very, very hard at me.

I don’t put up with any bullying in my classes or when I’m around (which is more than can be said for a lot of teachers/schools here in Japan, which turn a very blind eye to that stuff), but I’m not with the kids twenty-four hours a day, and I shudder to think of what goes on behind closed doors. You’re right that kids can be very cruel to one another- they seem very adept at finding just the right (wrong) way to twist the knife sometimes. On the other hand, I know some really good, hard-working, sweet-tempered kids, too. You get all kinds.

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By: gordo http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4584 gordo Tue, 17 Jan 2006 02:27:23 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4584 Faustus - the complexity of the children in the Harry Potter books is one of the best things about that great series. And yes, Draco is the most evil of the children, but I think I see redemption in his future. We would never tolerate in the workplace the kind of harassment and cruelty that goes on everyday in elementary schools in this country. Faustus - the complexity of the children in the Harry Potter books is one of the best things about that great series. And yes, Draco is the most evil of the children, but I think I see redemption in his future.

We would never tolerate in the workplace the kind of harassment and cruelty that goes on everyday in elementary schools in this country.

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By: Jason http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4578 Jason Mon, 16 Jan 2006 23:43:08 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4578 The whole "believe in yourself" motive bears dangerous consequences when it comes time to share the gospel with children. The gospel truth is that we are inadequate without Christ and we have to admit that and turn to Christ for help. The new gospel I'm hearing preached in many Charismatic circles is exactly that "believe in yourself... inside, you're beautiful." The whole “believe in yourself” motive bears dangerous consequences when it comes time to share the gospel with children. The gospel truth is that we are inadequate without Christ and we have to admit that and turn to Christ for help. The new gospel I’m hearing preached in many Charismatic circles is exactly that “believe in yourself… inside, you’re beautiful.”

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By: Faustus http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4577 Faustus Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:51:37 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4577 Children aren't evil. Children are human. Now, <i>some</i> children are evil- I think most of the best childrens' books recognize that. The first books that come to mind are <i>Harry Potter</i> and <i>The Chronicles of Narnia</i>. In the former, Draco Malfoy and his friends are about as nasty as your average kids get, and even Ron and Hermione, two of the heroes, have their moments of treating others badly. Likewise, the Narnia books all have children who aren't model, nice, well-behaved kids (Edmund in <i>The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe</i> and Eustace in <i>Voyage of the Dawn Treader</i>, to name two). Personally, I think it's difficult and a bit fallacious to try and pigeonhole all childrens' literature, because it's just too broad a genre. Good luck comparing, say, Lois Lowry's <i>Number the Stars</i>, Laura Ingalls Wilder's <i>Farmer Boy</i> and the Bobbsey Twins in any really meaningful way. They're just too different- it's apples and oranges, really. Children aren’t evil. Children are human. Now, some children are evil- I think most of the best childrens’ books recognize that. The first books that come to mind are Harry Potter and The Chronicles of Narnia. In the former, Draco Malfoy and his friends are about as nasty as your average kids get, and even Ron and Hermione, two of the heroes, have their moments of treating others badly. Likewise, the Narnia books all have children who aren’t model, nice, well-behaved kids (Edmund in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and Eustace in Voyage of the Dawn Treader, to name two).

Personally, I think it’s difficult and a bit fallacious to try and pigeonhole all childrens’ literature, because it’s just too broad a genre. Good luck comparing, say, Lois Lowry’s Number the Stars, Laura Ingalls Wilder’s Farmer Boy and the Bobbsey Twins in any really meaningful way. They’re just too different- it’s apples and oranges, really.

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By: Blog Jones http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4576 Blog Jones Mon, 16 Jan 2006 22:12:13 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4576 David: That's true; the full article I linked to concludes with: <blockquote> I have nothing against entertaining children—or adults!—with fantasy. I do wish, however, that that the authors of such works would stop preaching credulity. The best works of fiction don't require such rhetorical slight-of-hand, as they create worlds so internally consistent and rich that we don't hesistate to buy into them (consider, for instance, the works of Tolkien or Rowling). Only hacks feel the need to teach our kids ignorance. </blockquote> Gordo: I agree; "<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=29&chapter=53&verse=6&version=9&context=verse" rel="nofollow">All we like sheep have gone astray....</a>" David: That’s true; the full article I linked to concludes with:

I have nothing against entertaining children—or adults!—with fantasy. I do wish, however, that that the authors of such works would stop preaching credulity. The best works of fiction don’t require such rhetorical slight-of-hand, as they create worlds so internally consistent and rich that we don’t hesistate to buy into them (consider, for instance, the works of Tolkien or Rowling). Only hacks feel the need to teach our kids ignorance.

Gordo: I agree; “All we like sheep have gone astray….

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By: gordo http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4574 gordo Mon, 16 Jan 2006 20:40:15 +0000 http://www.blogjones.com/WordPress/2006/01/16/childrens-fiction-promotes-gullability/#comment-4574 I enjoyed the "His Dark Materials" books, but I didn't think they were for children. What I hate about children's literature is the silly notion that children are good, wise and pure. Children are evil. I enjoyed the “His Dark Materials” books, but I didn’t think they were for children.

What I hate about children’s literature is the silly notion that children are good, wise and pure. Children are evil.

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